Hello and welcome to Higher Thinking on Higher Ed. I am Charlyn Carrington of Content Strong Communications, the fractional communications and marketing leader of choice for universities, colleges and nonprofits. And today I am excited to continue diving into the trends and the challenges encountered by leaders in higher education, communications, marketing, advancement, whatever. And I'm honored to welcome Gina Bianchi to the hot seat. Gina is the Associate Vice president for advancement and campaign strategy at Illinois Wesleyan University, where she is leading the institution's next major capital campaign. With over 30 years of experience in higher education advancement, she has raised more than $50 million in support of scholarships, programs, facilities across multiple institutions. That's huge. Gina. 04:17 Sharlyn, Content Strong Gina is a seasoned strategist, community leader, and certified fundraising executive committed to building lasting alumni and donor engagement. Thank you so much for bringing your expertise to this conversation. How are you doing today? 04:29 Gina Bianchi I'm good. I'm happy to be here. You mentioned 30 years. Gosh, I just did math my head. I am old. 04:36 Sharlyn, Content Strong No, you're not. No, no. It just means you're wise. You're W, I, S, E. That's what it means. 04:41 Gina Bianchi Okay, okay, let's go with that, then. 04:43 Sharlyn, Content Strong Let's go with that. Let's go with that. I feel like that's what that should be plastered up on all of our walls, like we're our experience. Years of experience makes us wise. That's what it is. So the first question I like to ask really, is just, you know, situate me a little bit. Tell me a little bit about your current role leading fundraising efforts, how it contributes to the mission of the institution, and, you know, kind of what's going on in your world. 05:04 Gina Bianchi Well, yeah, I'll back up a little bit. As we just mentioned, you know, 30 years in higher education, it's not a field people aspire to get into when they're a child. You know, I want to be a nurse. I want environment, whatever it is. I've just stumbled into this, and I've truly have found my passion. So I'm pleased to have worked at 1, 2, 3 institutions in advancement for the most part, because I feel very strongly about what we do. And in a nutshell, I'd like to tell my friends and family that I help shape family trees, because without the work we do in fundraising, some young people won't have the opportunity for higher education. And it's kind of a family running joke. When are you going to graduate, Gina? Because I've only worked on a college campus. Well, I kind of have. 05:46 Gina Bianchi But in full disclosure, I left my last employer in September thinking I was gonna retire from higher education. 05:53 Sharlyn, Content Strong Right. 05:54 Gina Bianchi It was going to be my time. It's an uphill battle with the changing of the landscape over the years. You know, we can go tell the whole history of advance from my perspective, but we won't. But, of course, the pandemic shaped things. The political scene has shaped things. People are crushing the ROI before your residential institution, et cetera. So I was going to be done, and then I couldn't say no to a phenomenal leader at Illinois Wesleyan University. He was a newer president, joined the university about a year ago, and I had told myself I wanted to come back and Give back to my community, a community that I was just sleeping in while I was driving to my employer and working long days and long weeks. 06:35 Gina Bianchi And I missed my life, and I missed giving back to my community, being involved with boards in community service. So I got to do that for about four months before I took this job at Illinois Wesleyan just this past January of 2025, and I was hired to lead their capital campaign. So I've been a part of three capital campaigns prior to this post at various stages. 06:57 Sharlyn, Content Strong Right. 06:58 Gina Bianchi Beginning them, ending them. So this is an opportunity for me at Illinois Wesleyan. We are in a quiet phase of a campaign. We will go public in a year or so, depending on the progress in a fundraising scheme. So it's an opportunity for me to see one almost from start to finish. A lot of the legwork had been done before my arrival, but as I've dug my heels and I recognize there's still a lot of legwork to do. And so it's been a challenge for me to not just put the framework of the campaign together, but to learn the nuances of this university. You know, I have advancement experience, but it's different. Different systems, processes, you know, CRMs, et cetera. So I like to call it. I'm learning the Wesleyan way. 07:43 Gina Bianchi Yes, I know the work, but how to execute the work here has been the challenge. And it's been fun. And I wouldn't do what I do if it weren't fun because it didn't seem like work. And nobody wants to work. They want to enjoy what they do every day. 07:55 Sharlyn, Content Strong Right? Yeah. 07:57 Gina Bianchi So it's been very rewarding. I'm just tickled to be here. So I'm not sure if I answered your question. I kind of die diverting. 08:05 Sharlyn, Content Strong Yeah, no, you did. I mean, you know, I took away a lot of things, actually, from what you said. I mean, of course, being new into the institute, newer into the institution, that's always a big. I mean, a big change. And as you rightfully said, we all have these transferable skills that you can bring anywhere, but really makes or breaks our roles in an institution is understanding how an institution works and how the ins and outs and being able to navigate that, particularly now when we're in a climate that is surrounding us, and we'll get into that in a second. That is so. It can be so contentious, that can feel chaotic, that. So, you know, so many different things are going on that it is really important to figure out how you navigate your current. Your current ecosystem and then navigate the broader. 08:44 Sharlyn, Content Strong The broader world and how that impacts. Impacts your role. So, I mean, that's a. I think that's a very big point. You know, the second question I like to always ask is about, and you rightfully so mentioned a lot of those items, is how the current sector shifts and the current climate is kind of impacting your. Your role currently and what that means for your job. I mean, you talked about, you know, this. This changing idea of ROI in higher education. You talked about, you know, the political landscape and what that means. I mean, you probably mentioned, or probably thinking about, like, the enrollment cliff and what that means for, you know, the things that you do. 09:16 Sharlyn, Content Strong So, you know, really, how are kind of the shifting public perceptions of the value of higher education impacting how you approach fundraising, how you approach alumni engagement? 09:28 Gina Bianchi There is still a need. I mean, absolutely. Illinois Wesleyan University is situated in central Illinois, and we have a public institution a mile up the road, and we have a community college about a mile and a quarter up the road. And we're a small, private liberal arts institution, I think, and we're a community of about 130,000 residents. I think there's room for all of us because we serve different sectors. And that's the point I want to make to anyone that listen, is there still a role in. For higher education? Yes. I'm pleased that the trades have, you know, escalated in prominence, and that's an alternative option for young people. You know, community college. That's where I got my start, actually, back in the late 80s. It was right for me at the time. 10:17 Gina Bianchi And I just want to have young people and families recognize that they have options. So what we do from a fundraising perspective and advancement is helping to those that want to come here see themselves at a small, private liberal arts. We can afford them the opportunity because we can offer nice scholarship packages and have nice aesthetics and really lean into their experience. Because you and I both know, and many of these listeners know, that it's not just about what you learn in the classroom. It's what you learn about yourself and outside the classroom with your interactions, whether it's with the faculty members or your. Your roommate or your team members or whatever it is. You're. You're a young person. You're growing up, you're becoming an adult. 11:00 Sharlyn, Content Strong Right. 11:01 Gina Bianchi And I just love that we can help shape that and provide for that. So, yes, people can, you know, get on their high horse and be concerned about, you know, what does liberal arts mean? Or, it's so expensive. 11:15 Sharlyn, Content Strong Right. 11:16 Gina Bianchi You know, we can have argument after argument, but at the end of the day, you know, we don't, we all want to succeed and provide opportunities for others to succeed and flourish. That's what it boils down to for me. So I try to avoid the contentious conversations and find some common ground when I'm talking with alumni and prospective donors because again, there is a place and I just, I love having the opportunity to have those conversations on a regular basis. 11:44 Sharlyn, Content Strong Right. I mean, tying it back to something you said earlier, this idea of a big part of your role is helping to shape or helping to build family trees. Right. Like what it means when you give someone kind of a well rounded education, what they're able to take back to their families and how that able, that's able to kind of permeate itself across their, you know, individual or their local communities. I wonder if that, this is a question that just came to mind. I wonder if that's part of, you know, I don't want to say a storytelling challenge because I think it's an opportunity, but I wonder if you're using that kind of as an opportunity in your storytelling to some of, you know, your donor, your prospective donors, I'd say, and alumni and really trying to engage them in that. 12:26 Sharlyn, Content Strong And once again using that to almost prop up the value of higher education, particularly from, you know, a liberal arts institution. 12:34 Gina Bianchi I can talk the talk because I've walked the walk. I am a first generation college student. You know, my parents were very hard working individuals, blue collar, but didn't come from a higher ed background, weren't exposed to it in the small towns they came from. I lived in. And so I was afforded this opportunity. It was me really just looking around at my high school classmates going, well, they're looking at colleges, you know, what is that about? And just kind of learning as I'm peering over their shoulders. And I went to a junior college two years because that's what we could afford. And it was convenient. Convenient. And then I launched myself, you know, to a four year and I just can look back and look over my shoulder says, wow, I'm so fortunate to have had these decisions. 13:15 Gina Bianchi I haven't made these decisions and have been exposed to the opportunity to learn. You know, whether it's a high school job or, excuse me, career fair, college fair, I should say that's the word I'm looking for a college fair. You know, I can't remember what it was that piqued my interest, but maybe it was a number of things. But I am who I am and where I am. Today, because of education, and hopefully you can hear my voice. It's the passion I have for this work. I found my passion in advancement, but I'm appreciative of my peers, you know, down the hall that are working in student affairs or, you know, down the other hall that are working in marketing. There's just. It's a whole field that I wasn't exposed to until I got in it. 13:58 Gina Bianchi And I'm just very fortunate to be a part of it. And again, I'm becoming quite the advocate for it. 14:03 Sharlyn, Content Strong Right. I think, you know, I think there's a big almost missing story or missing opportunity to be told surrounding advancement and fundraising in particular when it comes to higher education, because we always, we understand the academic side of it, we understand the communications and marketing side of it and how valuable that is. But, you know, I think people misunderstand the value of, you know, fundraisers because what it means is you're bringing these funds into your institution so you can make the institution better and you can make the educational experience better for students. And it's difficult for people, I think, to make that connection as to why that role in particular is so important. 14:40 Sharlyn, Content Strong If we think a little bit more detailed and a little bit more granular into kind of your day to day, and particularly some of the projects you said you're working on right now, some bigger advancement campaigns, what's working for you guys right now, what's not, you know, what aspects of your capital campaign planning are moving ahead, I don't know, smoothly. And where are you kind of encountering the bigger hurdles? 15:00 Gina Bianchi Well, obvious ones in at least in my world, what I think is obvious are those that people can see the tangible benefits, for example, infrastructure building projects. So we broke ground this spring on a new, what we're calling an idea Center. So we're leaning heavily into entrepreneurship. We want to be, you know, a national leader in an entrepreneur liberal arts education. So people have gotten excited about this concept about the building because we've released the plans. So I don't want to say that's easy, but fundraising for something you can see is easier. The same is true about our residence halls. You know, you made the comment a minute ago about providing for a good experience. Well, the young people today are different than my generation where I had to share a bedroom with my sister. 15:46 Gina Bianchi They're used to the amenities of having their own private bathroom and their own bedroom. And so we've got to keep up with the times to be able to recruit the students. Expectations and the family's expectations. Of today, but recruit to outperform and have a, you know, a nicer facility than our competitions down the road, up the road, you know, across the state, across the country. So those are the easier projects, in my opinion, are those construction projects where you can see your dollars, you know, come out of the ground, so to speak. The unrestricted dollar, the almighty unrestricted dollar. People like to say, oh, it's the black hole. Well, right. 16:26 Sharlyn, Content Strong It's not. 16:26 Gina Bianchi It's just for those projects that you can anticipate, we want to give our presence the ability to have some dollars for discretionary use as projects come up or the unforeseen is presented to us. So that's something that, you know, if I have to come up with a barrier or a challenge, it's because at Illinois Wesleyan, we have really leaned into unrestricted because there is a lot of unforeseen projects that need attention. And we've just kind of flipped the script with our frontline fundraisers, getting them to start with that appeal. And of course, I always say part of the art of being a good fundraiser is listening not just to what a prospect may be saying, but it's what they're not saying. And if we can present a good case, a good argument for why unrestricted dollars is. 17:12 Gina Bianchi Need is needed, they're much more apt to listen and to lean into that and allow the university, the president, the most part to make the decisions on how their dollars are used. And it's many times for scholarship support to help recruit talent to institution. But it can be for other ancillary projects too. But it's just the president decides where the dollars are spent, not necessarily the donor, per se. 17:38 Sharlyn, Content Strong Right. Is that I can see that being. Being a challenge in terms of kind of doing that outreach and encouraging some of the. Some of the donors is this idea, this back idea. And I've actually had a similar conversation with somebody else at a different institution, and were talking about that. This idea about, you know, creating strategy and where donors and their visions and their ideas and their wants come into that and how it. How it kind of shapes. Shapes that. And I think, as you rightfully said, you know, the president really does have a big role in terms of helping to guide some of. Some of that direction. You mentioned something earlier about, you know, facilities and construction and being able to tie that link back to this is why this dollar is important. 18:18 Sharlyn, Content Strong And you'll be able to see directly where kind of the dollar is going when you're thinking about something like that. I wonder if you Ever have a challenge around considering. I'll say it this way, considering where we are in the state of, you know, online learning and people really getting into this idea that you can do a lot of things technically from where you are, if it is difficult to, to change and frame that story around actually creating these physical spaces are very important to, you know, a student experience, to building that, you know, on campus community. And if that's, you know, part of your challenges that you have today. 18:55 Gina Bianchi Well, I'd say that's a bigger challenge if I were in the admissions world. Because you know what my statement earlier is, I do think there's a place for us a small, private liberal arts those that still want that residential experience. 19:06 Sharlyn, Content Strong Right. 19:06 Gina Bianchi Because you're right, you can get a degree in mom and dad's basement, you know, in front of a screen. That's an option. And that's great that exists for some people. For some people, that's right for them. But for others, you know, we provide this traditional residential model that many other institutions do. So we need to lean into that and make us, you head and shoulders above our competition. So I think it's making sure that the recruitment piece, we have the facilities to help our admissions counselors, quote, unquote, you know, advocate and sell this university as to why we're different. So that's part of our responsibility too. You know, in our office and probably others as well, we talk that everybody that works at this institution, whether they want to admit it or not, is should be helping recruit. 19:55 Sharlyn, Content Strong Right. 19:56 Gina Bianchi And fundraise. Maybe they're not, you know, front line fundraising or, you know, actually dragging people here to attend. But you're selling the institution, you're talking passionately about the rewards it offers and, you know, what sets us apart. So, and that's what I think this office in Advancement has really bought into, is we've got a dynamic leader, we've got a phenomenal reputation, a wonderful community that supports us. And so we're just trying to fire on all cylinders and get all those pieces working together that really sets, will set us apart from the fundraising standpoint. So that's where this, the timing of this campaign, I think, is ideal, with the new leadership, with the energy that we're seeing from the campaign pillars that we're presenting. 20:43 Sharlyn, Content Strong Right. 20:44 Gina Bianchi I wouldn't have said yes to this opportunity if I didn't believe in this place, its mission and its future. So excited to be a part of it. I'd love to talk again at the end of this campaign in five years and talk about what worked and maybe what fell short and what we learned. 21:00 Sharlyn, Content Strong So I will follow up with you, trust me. You know, it gets me thinking in general. And I mean, you touched on a bit of this and I wonder if you have anything else to add. But when faced with skepticism around higher eds, roi, for example, what kinds of stories, what kinds of approaches, I don't know, donor strategies, have you used to really reframe that conversation? 21:24 Gina Bianchi Well, everybody is different, you know, every donor is different. You can't put, you know, lums from the 1960s in a bucket and expect to treat them all the same and have the same conversations. So you really have to get to know your audience, the individuals. And listening is a huge piece of what we do. I mentioned that before. So it's kind of knowing how far to take a conversation and what the donor is looking or the prospective donor is looking to get out of the relationship with the institution. Sometimes they just need to be heard, whatever it is, you know, they have an extra grind about a grade they received, you know, 30 years ago. Whatever it is, they just need to be heard. 22:07 Gina Bianchi So we should be listening and picking up tidbits of those conversations because there's a reason they took your phone call or they took your visit. So if they were really angry and want nothing to do with us because of, you know, dot, dot, then they wouldn't have said yes to the conversation. You know, every now and then you're going to get somebody that's going to just unload because they wanted to be heard and that's it and they're done and they'll tell you maybe to go pond sand, let's hope not. But after they've gotten their issues off their chest, maybe they will listen to the, you know, the state of the university today and let me describe what really is happening here. 22:44 Gina Bianchi Not maybe what you've heard out on the street or you make an assumption you've made based on an article you read in, you know, the Wall Street Journal, whatever it is. So the strategy is to really listen and have a one one conversation and always tell the truth, always speak with integrity and don't sugarcoat, you know, sugarcoat things and tell them the reality and let them form their own opinion about how they want to continue their relationship with university, if at all. And it, you know, pains me to say that, but they are our bread and butter. They are our clients, our audience, and many of them are the alums. So they have, you know, skin in this game as well. 23:29 Sharlyn, Content Strong So I shifting gears just quickly a little bit about and really thinking about all the work you're doing and how you measure that, how you're tracking that, you know, what performance indicators are you and your team most focused on right now? How are you measuring success? I mean, maybe just beyond just dollars raised, but what does success really look like for you and what metrics are you looking at? 23:54 Gina Bianchi Well, it's an interesting topic because we are in the quiet phase of a campaign and trying to define what the successful campaign look like. So, yes, we have these pillars, we want to build this building, we want to raise this much for scholarship and endowed positions, etc. Etc. So we'll gauge success if we fill those buckets up. But the reality is we will not fill every bucket to the level we expected. Some will overflow, some will come shy. So it's making sure back to that unrestricted dollar that we have some of that to, quote, unquote, be fungible to help cap off some of those buckets. But as we're preparing for this campaign in a quiet phase, we're gearing up and adding staff as well. 24:38 Gina Bianchi And so I'm just in these conversations the last few weeks as we've been interviewing various prospective staff members in a major gift role, and they want to know how we're defining success. So we've really laid out metrics for our newly hired frontline fundraisers and for our existing, which is something that really hasn't been defined as strongly as I, I would like. So it's not just dollars raised. You're right. Every individual has a goal, but it's a percent of a portfolio seen numbers, proposals written, number of days traveled in a month, in a year, and even planned giving. You know, there's billions and billions of dollars being transferred, you know, of wealth here as the next generation kind of steps up and the current generations passes along. And I don't remember the actual number, but it's a massive amount. 25:31 Gina Bianchi So we're trying to capitalize on that and making sure our frontline fundraisers are well versed in the plan giving language. We do have a great staff member here at Illinois that is well versed in that. He's a certified financial planner. So we are teaching our frontline fundraisers to partner with their colleague Jordan and introducing him at the appropriate time so that we can have those conversations about, you know, requests, estate plans, et cetera. So we're trying to put together all these Small benchmarks. These small. And I should diminish it by using the word small, but these carrots of incentivizing folks to define success with us so that they have some guardrails in place to know what the expectations are in the course of a new fiscal year. So it's just a learning curve at this institution. 26:24 Gina Bianchi They've not had a lot of that before, and they've been extremely successful. It's just trying to work smarter. I. I expect we all work hard, but let's try to work even smarter, right? Capitalize on our resources, our time, our talent, and our budget, because you and I aren't going to get any more hours in a day. So that's true. We're smart about it. Let's hope not. Right? We just work more. 26:50 Sharlyn, Content Strong I know. That's exactly it. I say that all the time. We're just. If I had more time, I would just fill it up with work. Okay. So, I mean, I think I give a good picture of where you're setting those benchmarks, what things you're looking for. And, you know, as you rightfully said, even those small. Even the small numbers. Right. Build help to build and create kind of a bigger picture of where there are successes and where there are gaps and where, you know, we need to focus more. More of your attention. Of course, I think about the next six to 12 months. 27:19 Sharlyn, Content Strong So you are in this phase of doing, you know, the quiet campaign planning, as you mentioned, but looking ahead to the next six to 12 months, what are your biggest goals for the campaign for your team, and what would success look like for you, personally, professionally, you know, all across the board. 27:35 Gina Bianchi Yeah. Thank you for following up. I kind of got off track and didn't finish what was in my mind. But one of the reasons you do a campaign is to raise the bar so that there's a new norm. And, you know, alumni participation used to be a piece of the algorithm that US News and World Report would report out on, you know, rankings. And that's no longer the case, but it's also a gauge of success. You know, how many of your alums give every year, regardless of the amount. And of course, we want to raise that percentage higher than it is today. You know, we want to have a higher percentage every year throughout the campaign, but we want that new norm to be even higher, the number of acquisition. We want a higher acquisition rate beyond the campaign that we have today. 28:23 Gina Bianchi So that's another focus for us and just, you know, more exposure. I think many institutions would probably agree they don't. We don't do a great job tooting our own horn. We probably get so busy putting our heads down. But if you look up, are you doing a good job of letting others know, not just your alums that receive the newsletter and the emails, but your greater community, your friends of the university, do they recognize really what you're offering? Because you don't want to have, you know, gates up around your, you know, 80 acres of campus or whatever it is, and not let the outside in or the inside out. We can benefit this community. We should, and we should be partners. So we really want to. 29:04 Gina Bianchi At the end of this campaign and throughout the campaign, you know, we'll pull down those walls and invite the greater community in, the friends of the university in to see what we're doing, how we're educating our young people, how we're giving back to our community. And again, that's where our. Our president has done such a phenomenal job. Where I was in conversation yesterday planning a back to school barbecue. And you think back to school, you think students. Right. We're having it about a week before students are back and just inviting friends of the university to come tailgate with us, you know, have some community, have a hog roast just to, you know, remind them that we're here and here's what we're up to and, you know, we'll have some talking points, but I really like that about what Illinois Wesleyan is doing again. 29:50 Gina Bianchi I'm sure other institutions are doing something similar, but we're really trying to be good partners in the community, and I'm proud of this community. I've lived in Bloomington Normal my whole adult life, and I probably will never leave. So it just warms my heart to. To know again that I'm making an impact not just with the young people that are Illinois Wesleyan students, you know, continuing that relationship with alums beyond their graduation days, but also within community presence as well. 30:22 Sharlyn, Content Strong Right. Once again, like, really feeding off of that idea of building community and really thriving off community engagement, how important that is. And I think that leads back to your original point about really demonstrating the value of roi, that, you know, higher education is, of course, about, you know, students and helping them find their futures and their way forward. But it's also about the, you know, building that entire fam. The family tree, as you write, Felicia, and what that means for the broader community and then ideally, you know, society at large. If you could have a magic wand right now. Yeah. Give it to you and you could wave it and you can remove one persistent challenge, one persistent obstacle from your advancement work, what would it be and what difference would that make in your, you know, your surroundings, your ecosystem? 31:09 Gina Bianchi Well, if I had a magic wand, I would make myself about 4 inches taller and I'd shed about then I'd wave it for my work and advancement. That's a great question, Char. You know, it would be different maybe if you asked this to me a few years ago or in a few years, but today my head is around the political landscape. You know, I don't want to sound like I'm talking on both sides of my mouth, because two minutes ago I talk about, you know, tearing down the. The walls and the fences and letting the community in. But at the same time, I. People get wrapped up in the political landscape and they juxtapose their opinions and make assumptions about what we're doing and why we're doing things in higher education or at Illinois Wesleyan. 31:53 Gina Bianchi And I just wish we could tune that out or, you know, erase that from our, you know, our vernacular, our minds. But such as life, you roll with the punches and, you know, you can't do that. I live in the world of reality. So we just learn to, you know, navigate it as best we can and then keep in touch with our colleagues at other institutions and share best practices and, you know, what if stories and. So that's a unique answer to your question. 32:29 Sharlyn, Content Strong No, I think that. I think that point is well taken. I definitely don't think you're the only person to make that point. This idea that, you know, they're. The political landscape is so contentious and it can have such a direct impact on what institutions are doing and how they're able to do what they do. And I think, you know, it's definitely a sentiment that is, I think, shared across the board. This idea that they would value a little bit more separation and this idea that, you know, people see an institution for its own brand, for its own offering and what it, as its own entity is able to, you know, provide to, as you rightfully said, your surround the surrounding community or the community that surrounds it. So I think that's a good, valuable point. 33:17 Sharlyn, Content Strong Anything else in terms of your day to day that you would love to remove? That's a little less big picture? 33:26 Gina Bianchi Yeah, yeah. 33:29 Sharlyn, Content Strong Is there anything else that comes to mind that I did, I just failed to ask you about, or you really, you know, were hoping you'd get a chance to mention and I didn't, you know, it didn't come up. 33:40 Gina Bianchi I just hopefully again, you've heard in the intonation of my voice that I'm passionate about what I do and what we do, those of all of us in the advancement world, you know, alumni and development, whatever you want to call your offices, because there's many people that don't know, you know, right away. They're like, oh, fundraising and they think like, use car salesmen. If you have a chance to have a conversation like we've done and it gets the wheels turning in their mind and they're thinking about, oh, yeah, I never thought about it like that, then that's a good day for me. That's a win. I've kind of sold them on what I do. 34:13 Sharlyn, Content Strong Right. 34:14 Gina Bianchi It is very rewarding. And again, back to the first part of our conversation. It's not what young people, you know, and in grade school aspire to be when they grew up, necessarily because it's kind of an unknown, but it's very rewarding. I'm pleased to be in this field. 34:33 Sharlyn, Content Strong That's wonderful. I think, I think mostly everyone I've spoken to in higher ed has said, you know, I am pleased to be in this field for more than just, you know, I'm here to catch a paycheck. But because of this idea that you're able to literally give back and see these individual stories and how the impact of their experience within their individual institution is impacting their lives and the people, the lives of the people around them. So that's wonderful. 34:56 Gina Bianchi We don't do it for the money. I mean, there's a company here in Bloomington Normal you might know of State Farm Insurance. Covered offices are here and I have many friends that work for them and they talk about, you know, their pay raises and incentives and you know, they're double digit pay raises. And in higher education, I joke spell raiser bonus. 35:17 Sharlyn, Content Strong Yeah. You don't get that? 35:18 Gina Bianchi No, we don't do it for the money. It's, it's for the intrinsic reward. 35:22 Sharlyn, Content Strong Right, right. Well, thank you so much, Gina. I mean, thank you for sharing your time, your experience, your perspective with us today. It's been such a thoughtful and generous conversation to our listeners, to our watchers. I hope this episode sparked ideas, affirmed your own experiences, or maybe helped you see a challenge in a new light. If you are a leader in higher education, communications, marketing, advancement, enrollment, whatever, and you want to contribute to this evolving conversation, I'd love to hear from you. Because the truth is these conversations are not just talk. They really are the start of a shared road Map for the future of our field. So let's get to work. Thank you so much again, Gina. 35:56 Gina Bianchi Thank you. Appreciate it. Take care.