00:03:00.360 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Hello, and welcome to higher thinking on higher. Ed. I am Charlene Carrington of Content. Strong communications where we provide fractional communications and marketing leadership to universities, colleges, and small businesses. Today I'm excited to continue diving into the trends and the challenges encountered by communications and marketing leaders in higher education, and today I am honored to welcome Dave Gladsin from Point Loma Nazarene University to the Hot Seat. 9 00:03:00.360 --> 00:03:13.100 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Dave is the associate Vp. For marketing, where he leads a 20 person hybrid team supporting Point Loma's key revenue divisions, undergraduate graduate advancement with a decade at the University and a background in non 10 00:03:15.990 --> 00:03:26.220 Sharlyn, Content Strong: a peace corps volunteer in Kenya. I thought that was really interesting when I read that, Dave, thank you again. So so much for bringing your expertise to this conversation today. How are you. 11 00:03:26.830 --> 00:03:28.610 Dave Gladson: Doing good thanks for having me today. 12 00:03:28.990 --> 00:03:37.783 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Thanks for coming on. It's super early for you. It's nice in the middle of the day for me. I always appreciate people who get up super early to have conversations with me. 13 00:03:38.940 --> 00:03:40.399 Dave Gladson: Got the coffee, we're ready to go. 14 00:03:40.400 --> 00:04:06.069 Sharlyn, Content Strong: So do I. That's good. So you know, I talked a little bit just now about kind of your role and what it is that you do at the University, but maybe you can get into that a little bit for us. I know you lead Point Loma Central Marketing team with, and you mentioned at 1 point that you have kind of a strong alignment with, you know your enrollment team as well. Can you share a little bit about how your role fits into the broader institutional priorities, and you know how that partnership, even with enrollment, has kind of evolved. 15 00:04:07.020 --> 00:04:26.629 Dave Gladson: Yeah. So Point Loma has a a pretty centralized marketing model, you know. Some universities will have marketing teams all throughout. But we really have one true marketing team. So we support undergrad admissions. You know, any any kind of content. They're producing brochures, emails kind of that traditional stuff 16 00:04:26.760 --> 00:04:35.360 Dave Gladson: all the way onto our our graduate side, we really almost function as an internal agency. And we're running all the digital advertising like doing all the 17 00:04:35.710 --> 00:04:47.615 Dave Gladson: the the strategy for for that supporting our Advancement office, we do. We do the University magazine. So it really is a central team supporting the whole university. We have 18 00:04:48.120 --> 00:04:56.510 Dave Gladson: 3, 3 key teams. We have a a content team, a design team and a operations team that includes like our research function and our email. So. 19 00:04:56.510 --> 00:04:57.100 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Right. 20 00:04:57.700 --> 00:04:58.380 Dave Gladson: I think. 21 00:04:58.650 --> 00:05:20.710 Dave Gladson: evolving out of that. You know, a decade ago we were really more of a creative services team, and we've really transformed, not under our 2 previous leaders, and then under me as well. Kind of really going in this direction of a marketing strategy team and leaving that creative services kind of background behind and really leaning into that marketing strategy side. 22 00:05:21.530 --> 00:05:38.639 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Okay, very good. So if I were to pick up on that a little bit, you talk a bit about the shift between actually doing that creative service which I see in my brain is more tactical to the strategic marketing lens side of it. How would you say that you know that new lens is really pushing your institutional strategy forward. 23 00:05:40.130 --> 00:05:51.085 Dave Gladson: Yeah, I mean something that that stuck with me even since my very 1st marketing class is the idea that if marketing is not involved in the product design. You're not doing marketing, you're just promoting 24 00:05:51.770 --> 00:06:02.599 Dave Gladson: And I think that's something that point Loma has done really well, and our team's really been able to lean into is getting deeply involved in that strategic planning process and bringing that 25 00:06:02.720 --> 00:06:07.429 Dave Gladson: marketing lens. That data informed Lens to the very beginning. You know we're not. 26 00:06:07.890 --> 00:06:23.330 Dave Gladson: It's so often it's, you know. Faculty will come. Here's an idea. It's ready to go. Please find me students. And we've really been able to to get marketing in beginning the process and say, here's a great idea from the faculty. Let's do the research. Let's figure out 27 00:06:23.560 --> 00:06:29.017 Dave Gladson: what needs to be true about this degree for it to be marketable, so that when it comes to market 28 00:06:29.520 --> 00:06:36.260 Dave Gladson: we can get students efficiently, we're not throwing dollars at a program trying to fill seats. But it's like, Hey, we've got something that's 29 00:06:36.370 --> 00:06:37.679 Dave Gladson: students want. 30 00:06:38.010 --> 00:06:43.090 Dave Gladson: It's it's a whole lot easier to fill it. If it's if it's designed around what students want versus just being 31 00:06:43.290 --> 00:06:45.090 Dave Gladson: a generic product offering. 32 00:06:45.830 --> 00:06:55.539 Sharlyn, Content Strong: I love what you said there, and I'm writing it down because you said, Let's figure out what's true. What needs to be true about the program for people to kind of connect with it. And I think about. 33 00:06:55.870 --> 00:07:21.949 Sharlyn, Content Strong: I really, I think about the sector as a whole. And I think about communicators and marketers and our job, and how it's changed so much as a whole in terms of trying to really identify what is true and what that means to us, and how we continue to present that. So I think a little bit about maybe what you have encountered. You know what are the kind of major shifts you're seeing in higher education, marketing and the enrollment landscape as a whole. And how are they kind of shaping your your strategy. 34 00:07:23.360 --> 00:07:31.017 Dave Gladson: Yeah, I mean, looking externally for on on the marketing side, I mean, it's so much digital changing so fast. 35 00:07:31.600 --> 00:07:35.379 Dave Gladson: something that's that's been really worked really well for us, and 36 00:07:35.870 --> 00:07:53.239 Dave Gladson: is really moving away from those higher education specific agencies and really learn leaning into we partner with with a San Diego based agency red door interactive, that is, you know, a regular full service agency. They work with a lot of clients outside of higher Ed, and really getting that 37 00:07:53.580 --> 00:07:58.734 Dave Gladson: that industry perspective. Outside of outside of higher Ed, 38 00:07:59.530 --> 00:08:19.290 Dave Gladson: the higher Ed marketers have felt like they've been much more formulaic, much more like, let's just take what works on traditional undergrad and try to apply it to grad. And that doesn't work. The traditional undergraduate strategies do work for additional undergraduate. So we can. We can do that there. And you know, there's probably still some evolution we want to do, but like 39 00:08:19.790 --> 00:08:26.559 Dave Gladson: what works there works. But it doesn't work on the grad. So we we need a different model. We need a data informed 40 00:08:27.040 --> 00:08:32.190 Dave Gladson: market. You know, market forward using the latest technology. 41 00:08:32.669 --> 00:08:44.410 Dave Gladson: A graduate, a graduate consumer is very different than a 16 year old high school student. We can't use the same tactics. We can't use the same strategies for those 2 audiences, so 42 00:08:44.540 --> 00:08:49.130 Dave Gladson: really bringing in an agency that they can think differently. 43 00:08:50.140 --> 00:09:00.190 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Right. And I think about you know, as you talked about that, I think about just that idea between the way, even the like, the newer undergrad students are 44 00:09:00.320 --> 00:09:07.799 Sharlyn, Content Strong: absorbing and consuming information, consuming some of the marketing tactics that we would typically send to them. 45 00:09:07.800 --> 00:09:30.930 Sharlyn, Content Strong: promote to them, I think, are landing differently, just because, you know, they're digital natives. They're in front of a screen all the time, and the way they consume things the way they distrust things. I wonder if you've seen any of that in terms of the way you guys market to both undergrad and graduate students. Just this idea of how much AI has influenced these audiences. How much having a screen has influenced these audiences, and just the idea of trying to. 46 00:09:30.930 --> 00:09:33.579 Sharlyn, Content Strong: you know, ascertain what's authentic and what's not? 47 00:09:34.730 --> 00:09:35.869 Sharlyn, Content Strong: It's a big question. 48 00:09:36.490 --> 00:09:49.158 Dave Gladson: It is a big question. And I think you're right that those 2 audiences, even though you know they're only a few years apart like it is a very different mindset. You know, the high school student gather digital natives. 49 00:09:49.890 --> 00:09:57.199 Dave Gladson: and a really long sales cycle like a lot of these. A lot of them are considering what college you're going to as early as middle school like. 50 00:09:57.200 --> 00:09:57.610 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Right. 51 00:09:57.610 --> 00:10:03.286 Dave Gladson: It's not. It's not a 6 month sales cycle. It's a it's a 5 year sales cycle. 52 00:10:04.440 --> 00:10:13.159 Dave Gladson: so it's a combination of like there's all the specific tactics. And we want to optimize those tactics. It's also really leaning into the value of Brand. I think. 53 00:10:14.320 --> 00:10:25.712 Dave Gladson: maybe looking back at the last kind of decade of of just marketing strategy. Like we've we've been. We've been in a time where we've looked at. We can measure everything, and if we can measure it. We can optimize it. 54 00:10:26.400 --> 00:10:29.330 Dave Gladson: And I think, maybe recognizing now that 55 00:10:30.190 --> 00:10:35.820 Dave Gladson: that's it's still true. We should optimize and measure what we can measure optimize what we can optimize. But 56 00:10:35.940 --> 00:10:40.750 Dave Gladson: there is value to just investing in brand. And 57 00:10:41.240 --> 00:10:46.380 Dave Gladson: you can optimize the the specific tactics all you want. But if you don't have a strong brand to go with it. 58 00:10:46.610 --> 00:10:52.090 Dave Gladson: You're not. You're not going to be getting the returns you want to see like you have. You have to do both. 59 00:10:53.120 --> 00:11:02.719 Dave Gladson: I think that's particularly true with with that high school audience of where they've got where they do have such a long sales cycle where they're looking at so many options beyond. 60 00:11:03.440 --> 00:11:22.709 Dave Gladson: you know. Not just which college should I go to? But should I go to college? Do I want to wait a couple of years and get in the workforce first, st and I can always come back later, like, if I don't do this at 18, like I can come back at 20 and do an online program. Is that the best option for every student? Probably not. But it's an option they're considering. So 61 00:11:22.950 --> 00:11:28.179 Dave Gladson: we have to. We have to understand. That's the reality of the choices they're looking at. And 62 00:11:28.650 --> 00:11:33.420 Dave Gladson: we need to have a really strong brand value proposition to go with the 63 00:11:33.770 --> 00:11:37.150 Dave Gladson: really good email tactics. Really good social media tactics. 64 00:11:37.850 --> 00:12:00.290 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Has that been a challenge for you guys in the past, like, I know, I've had conversations with other institutions that have very much so talked about this idea of, you know, demonstrating the value of higher education as a whole. But I think about how exactly what you mentioned this idea of really tying it into your brand and your value proposition of your brand and of your school. Specifically. I wonder if you have anything to add to that. 65 00:12:01.810 --> 00:12:12.350 Dave Gladson: I mean, I think it's it's just something you have to constantly do and never, never get lazy on. I mean, we're really lucky if you've been to our website, you know, we have a beachside location like we do lean into that a lot. 66 00:12:12.700 --> 00:12:14.750 Dave Gladson: We get to show off a 67 00:12:15.090 --> 00:12:22.588 Dave Gladson: you know our freshman dorms are 20 feet from the water. We have surfboard racks. We use those photos a lot, and we get a lot of value out of them. 68 00:12:22.990 --> 00:12:29.880 Dave Gladson: But we also need to show the career value because that that alone the the awesome location isn't enough. We need to show 69 00:12:30.040 --> 00:12:34.469 Dave Gladson: if you get this degree. This is what you're gonna be able to do with it afterwards. This is how 70 00:12:34.570 --> 00:12:42.979 Dave Gladson: we're gonna make sure that not just after you graduate, but, like all along the way, here's how these classes are setting you up for success, these, how. 71 00:12:42.980 --> 00:12:43.500 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Right. 72 00:12:43.500 --> 00:12:53.630 Dave Gladson: How these classes are helping you figure out what you want to do after college. There is a big exploratory aspect to a Liberal Arts institution, and like making sure that we 73 00:12:53.950 --> 00:13:00.035 Dave Gladson: tell those stories and continue retelling them because the way we told it 5 years ago may not resonate today 74 00:13:00.540 --> 00:13:03.989 Dave Gladson: so consistently going back consistently getting that 75 00:13:04.180 --> 00:13:08.159 Dave Gladson: pulling that student voice, that recent alumni voice 76 00:13:08.400 --> 00:13:10.360 Dave Gladson: in into those stories, and just 77 00:13:10.480 --> 00:13:16.069 Dave Gladson: continually leaning into that, I think if we don't do that like we're, it's gonna be a big miss. 78 00:13:16.570 --> 00:13:27.209 Sharlyn, Content Strong: And you said just now, this idea of you know having to retell the same retell the stories in different ways. And because obviously, what happened 5 years ago is not going to work today. Why do you think that is. 79 00:13:30.270 --> 00:13:38.040 Dave Gladson: I mean, it's partially just. Things are. Things are shifting so quickly like to your point about authenticity. A video from a couple of years ago. You can tell, you know. 80 00:13:38.040 --> 00:13:38.400 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Yeah. 81 00:13:38.400 --> 00:13:40.120 Dave Gladson: It looks different. 82 00:13:40.490 --> 00:13:52.489 Dave Gladson: you know, even really small signals, like people are looking because there's so much kind of this AI generated content coming like people are really looking for those authenticity signals. 83 00:13:52.990 --> 00:13:56.140 Dave Gladson: and I think you know, a video that has 84 00:13:56.420 --> 00:14:07.029 Dave Gladson: content from several years ago may not, may not land because it doesn't. It does. It's obvious that it's not recent. Doesn't need to be highly produced. I think we've seen that same thing like 85 00:14:07.210 --> 00:14:11.160 Dave Gladson: highly produced video content may not be what we need. It's. 86 00:14:11.160 --> 00:14:11.790 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Right. 87 00:14:12.170 --> 00:14:15.760 Dave Gladson: Give. Give that student an iphone. Let them talk to it the way they would on Tiktok. 88 00:14:15.940 --> 00:14:23.650 Dave Gladson: That's that's what students want to hear. That's what's actually going to be more effective than a storyboarded. 89 00:14:24.040 --> 00:14:31.180 Dave Gladson: Yeah, we need those 2 there, there's use cases for those really highly produced, really? Well, crafted videos. We want those. 90 00:14:31.480 --> 00:14:34.410 Dave Gladson: But we also need that good. 91 00:14:34.660 --> 00:14:54.279 Dave Gladson: Just let the student talk the way they would on Tiktok and share their story. And that's going to speak to that student audience very authentically and like lean into that. We can't control the messaging. In the same way we have to be okay. With that we have to be okay with sacrificing some of the control over how the message is expressed to get that authenticity. 92 00:14:54.940 --> 00:15:16.700 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Absolutely. You're not the 1st person to talk about that, either. You mentioned earlier about metrics. I always want to ask the metrics question like, what are you? Obviously metrics driven in marketing in general? But we kind of what are you following right now? What kpis are you most focused on? And how are you using that data to kind of drive your strategy in real time? 93 00:15:17.950 --> 00:15:24.064 Dave Gladson: Yeah, I mean, I'll shift to the grad audience there, because I feel like, that's where we've made a lot of innovation, a lot of progress. 94 00:15:24.610 --> 00:15:32.099 Dave Gladson: you know the, the, the cut, the Crm, the the management system that we had for tracking leads that we inherited was very 95 00:15:32.770 --> 00:15:43.799 Dave Gladson: undergrad focused, and we had to. We've had to do a lot of work in the last decade. To really even build in the fields. We need to track the kind of data that we need to optimize. 96 00:15:44.770 --> 00:15:52.519 Dave Gladson: you know, the system was very set up to thinking about. We'll just inquiry to enroll conversion rate. And that's really all we can track 97 00:15:52.980 --> 00:15:58.320 Dave Gladson: But it's a long sales cycle. I can't wait a year to see whether or not this ad campaign is performing. 98 00:15:58.510 --> 00:16:01.295 Dave Gladson: I need data from this week. 99 00:16:02.060 --> 00:16:26.350 Dave Gladson: so we've really, you know, in both, within the data. But then, also really in partnership with enrollment and and figuring out, what's the right ways to track the data building in? We call it qualified inquiry. But it's like, what is that immediate touch point where, within 3 days of this inquiry coming to the system, we can have a signal. Is this person likely to enroll? Are they not likely to enroll so that we can then 100 00:16:26.400 --> 00:16:32.995 Dave Gladson: feed that back into the ads and say, Give us more people like this. Send us fewer people like these ones who don't engage 101 00:16:33.720 --> 00:16:55.669 Dave Gladson: you know. And the metric that we found that that's most predictive is, do they get on the phone, you know, after after they for the grad audience? Once they've inquired, or once they've started that stealth application, do they engage with the counselor if they engage with the counselor? And that 1st conversation is positive. That's a that's a really strong signal. We want to bring more people like that in for the ads if they 102 00:16:56.090 --> 00:17:06.229 Dave Gladson: open the emails, but they never. They don't engage with the counselor. They don't engage with the counselor after starting the app. That's a that's a pretty negative signal. We probably want to have the ads focus on less people like that. So 103 00:17:06.810 --> 00:17:13.530 Dave Gladson: you know, using the digital platforms that using all the optimization tools there, but really making sure that it's 104 00:17:14.069 --> 00:17:18.500 Dave Gladson: giving it the right data signal. You know, if you 105 00:17:19.920 --> 00:17:24.839 Dave Gladson: if you give it a signal of email opens, it's gonna you know, it's gonna 106 00:17:25.089 --> 00:17:35.640 Dave Gladson: the the model will focus towards people who open emails that may not be the people who are going to enroll. So getting the right data signal and even setting up the infrastructure to track that. 107 00:17:36.750 --> 00:18:03.980 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Yes, I yes, and that's you know what. It was really interesting when you were talking about that just now, because I think that is the toughest part, particularly in this sector, is exactly as you said, because the lead cycle is so long you may have had several different engagements with them before they get to the point where? Oh, yeah, I'm actually going to enroll, or Oh, yeah, I'm going to visit campus or yeah, etc. Etc. Etc. Which is so, which is so different than anything else, really, that we have outside of this sector, which does make it more difficult to track. 108 00:18:03.980 --> 00:18:23.969 Sharlyn, Content Strong: I wonder thinking about your strategy as a whole, and not necessarily tied to like enrollment or marketing. But just thinking about your role. You know, you lead this kind of cross functional hybrid team that is at the center of marketing and enrollment. What has worked well in kind of fostering collaboration and efficiency across 109 00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:33.300 Sharlyn, Content Strong: that modality. And where are you still kind of seeing friction in terms of your workflows in terms of communication, in terms of you know, reaching those metrics, even. 110 00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:43.830 Dave Gladson: Yeah, it's a great question. And it's it's a constantly evolving it's constantly evolving. You know, if 111 00:18:44.970 --> 00:19:02.327 Dave Gladson: you know, looking back 6 years ago we we didn't have a really strong leadership on on the Enrollment side, and there was a lot of confusion between our roles. You know, marketing was doing a lot of work that enrollment should be doing. Enrollment was trying to do marketing job like there was a lot of a lot of friction points. A lot of crossover. 112 00:19:04.050 --> 00:19:14.561 Dave Gladson: really having a lot of deep conversation about what work should our team be doing? What current work should your team be doing, actually moving a few people around between the offices. 113 00:19:15.430 --> 00:19:19.720 Dave Gladson: really building that sense of trust of like, hey it 114 00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:27.059 Dave Gladson: so often higher. Ed, and I guess probably outside of higher ed. To like sale enrollment is just sales. So sales and marketing are 115 00:19:27.380 --> 00:19:30.069 Dave Gladson: or act act like arch enemies like. 116 00:19:30.070 --> 00:19:31.260 Dave Gladson: If if we miss target. 117 00:19:31.260 --> 00:19:32.050 Sharlyn, Content Strong: It's. 118 00:19:32.290 --> 00:19:40.690 Dave Gladson: Sales, blames marketing for bringing in bad leads, marketing blame sales for for not working the leads. Well, that's not productive for either team. So 119 00:19:41.360 --> 00:19:52.350 Dave Gladson: building that sense of trust between the leaders and between the the teams. You know all the way all the way through the structure that hey? We have each other's backs. We're going to. We're going to share data. If 120 00:19:53.320 --> 00:20:08.800 Dave Gladson: if we're seeing like, Hey, everyone coming in from this Facebook campaign is not qualified, or they're they're not the people we need to be talking to. Great. Tell us we can adjust that like that's not a that's not a blame. Marketing did something wrong. That's a hey? We tried an experiment. It didn't work. 121 00:20:08.800 --> 00:20:09.240 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Right. 122 00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:12.264 Dave Gladson: Let's get that information so we can redeploy it. 123 00:20:12.830 --> 00:20:20.649 Dave Gladson: and really just building that trust that when we are talking with academics or when we are talking with senior leadership, that 124 00:20:20.810 --> 00:20:25.429 Dave Gladson: marketing enrollment will be aligned and that we're not. We're not pointing fingers. What we're. 125 00:20:25.430 --> 00:20:26.050 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Correct. 126 00:20:26.050 --> 00:20:29.159 Dave Gladson: Telling a similar story from from our own perspectives like we. 127 00:20:29.700 --> 00:20:31.950 Dave Gladson: There, there are, you know, we we have to. 128 00:20:32.620 --> 00:20:35.280 Dave Gladson: There's always going to be a bit of needing to 129 00:20:35.600 --> 00:20:40.199 Dave Gladson: defend marketing side or defend enrollment side. But we need to be in alignment, so that we're 130 00:20:40.720 --> 00:20:46.250 Dave Gladson: telling the same story, and you know, getting that consistent message about 131 00:20:46.630 --> 00:20:58.519 Dave Gladson: neither of our teams are able to succeed here because there's a product misaligned. So let's let's talk about what could be. What could be true about this program to make it so that we can fill it? Is it 132 00:20:58.650 --> 00:21:08.409 Dave Gladson: getting more field experience? Is it we really need new concentration or like what what we need. This, we have the wrong modality. We really need an online modality for this program. But like. 133 00:21:08.930 --> 00:21:18.200 Dave Gladson: if we're in alignment. It's much easier to have that conversation with academics and work on bringing the program to be more market aligned. So we can all succeed. 134 00:21:19.620 --> 00:21:22.050 Dave Gladson: I think that's all of that is a good point is just. 135 00:21:22.550 --> 00:21:45.840 Sharlyn, Content Strong: In general trying to find. I mean, we find that so often in the higher Ed sector, right? Especially as the institutions get bigger and bigger and bigger. So everybody's working in silos. And then it's difficult to literally, that builds consensus so that you're all working in one direction or working towards that one goal. I wonder? Just thinking about what you've been saying, taking that step back. Is there anything you're really proud of like? What are you really proud of that. You're doing right now. 136 00:21:49.090 --> 00:21:56.789 Dave Gladson: I'm proud of the way that marketing has gotten itself into those early conversations. I think it sounds boring, but like. 137 00:21:56.790 --> 00:21:57.489 Sharlyn, Content Strong: It doesn't. 138 00:21:57.490 --> 00:22:05.499 Dave Gladson: Role in strategic enrollment, planning and doing market research at the very beginning and bringing those bringing that data in 139 00:22:05.650 --> 00:22:16.950 Dave Gladson: when we're 1st thinking about launching a program instead of after we've already written the curriculum. Again, it sounds boring. It sounds wonky, but it's it's so critical success. I think 140 00:22:17.430 --> 00:22:19.540 Dave Gladson: the little shifts we make there 141 00:22:19.700 --> 00:22:26.330 Dave Gladson: have a huge impact making enrollment shop easier, making marketing shop easier when the program actually launches. 142 00:22:27.620 --> 00:22:34.969 Dave Gladson: we've also done a lot just again, kind of leaving behind that creative services background of like using tools like hand of like 143 00:22:35.080 --> 00:22:38.479 Dave Gladson: campus. Here's templates. Here's templates that you can use for them. 144 00:22:38.660 --> 00:22:47.560 Dave Gladson: I can't make this postcard for you, but here are 10 beautiful postcard templates that you can use. You can probably make the postcard faster than you can tell me what you want on the postcard. 145 00:22:47.560 --> 00:22:48.310 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Right. 146 00:22:48.730 --> 00:22:49.819 Dave Gladson: Here you go. 147 00:22:49.950 --> 00:22:58.130 Dave Gladson: and understanding that. Well, I'm not gonna give you feedback. That yeah, that logo could have been 3 pixels to the left, like or. 148 00:22:58.130 --> 00:22:58.460 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Yeah. 149 00:22:58.460 --> 00:23:07.459 Dave Gladson: Didn't like. Okay, some. Some of that. We're gonna have to let go some. We're gonna have to let go of some of that creative feedback, because we're empowering people. 150 00:23:08.030 --> 00:23:09.820 Dave Gladson: using things like our. 151 00:23:09.930 --> 00:23:31.813 Dave Gladson: we have a a really great photography bank in our inner dam that we're using to really get that photography out to campus where, you know we're not. We're not holding on to it and reserving the photos only for our use for really making sure the campus has access to them, and when you use them on your poster, great here, here they are. Search them, use whatever you want. They're here as a resource for you. 152 00:23:32.260 --> 00:23:36.239 Dave Gladson: so really, focusing on that campus empowerment campus enablement. 153 00:23:37.270 --> 00:23:43.800 Sharlyn, Content Strong: That's a good that's a good one. But if we think so, if I think about you know you're doing great things. You're proud of a lot of stuff. What what do you? 154 00:23:43.930 --> 00:23:47.609 Sharlyn, Content Strong: What's hard for you right now? What are kind of your big challenges. 155 00:23:48.770 --> 00:23:50.416 Dave Gladson: Big challenges. 156 00:23:54.130 --> 00:24:00.039 Dave Gladson: I think the biggest challenge. And you know, maybe it's because I see this discussed on Linkedin constantly is 157 00:24:00.800 --> 00:24:12.271 Dave Gladson: the everyone thinks they're a marketer. Everyone thinks they understand marketing like, oh, I send emails. I'm a marketer like I, I have. I started an Instagram account. I'm a marketer. 158 00:24:12.870 --> 00:24:22.200 Dave Gladson: really understanding what what marketing strategy really means, like, what what marketing needs to do, like what things 159 00:24:22.320 --> 00:24:28.514 Dave Gladson: marketing probably shouldn't be calling your students that's that's not our role. That's that's not our skill set. 160 00:24:30.990 --> 00:24:33.490 Dave Gladson: but yeah, just getting people to understand 161 00:24:33.990 --> 00:24:39.510 Dave Gladson: what what things Marky needs to help them with and what things are on them to do and really like 162 00:24:40.500 --> 00:24:51.146 Dave Gladson: tha, that that is the biggest challenge. And I think you know a lot of a lot of time and energy gets sucked into conversations around. Well, we can't do that for you. Here's what you could do instead. 163 00:24:51.560 --> 00:24:58.790 Dave Gladson: I think I think we could save a lot of time and energy if we could get more clarity around what marketing should do, what marketing shouldn't do. 164 00:24:59.470 --> 00:25:02.350 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Back to that internal alignment piece right. 165 00:25:02.490 --> 00:25:04.019 Dave Gladson: Back to internal alignment. 166 00:25:04.310 --> 00:25:31.799 Sharlyn, Content Strong: So what came to mind as well when I was reading your bio is some of your background, and I thought that was so interesting. I mean, you worked in both. Obviously nonprofit international context before higher. Ed, I'm wondering how some of that, or if, whether or not some of that experience has kind of shaped some of the strategies you've tried with your institution now, and what I don't know maybe experimental approaches you've done as a result of that to kind of navigate some of the stuff we're seeing now. 167 00:25:33.630 --> 00:25:41.649 Dave Gladson: Yeah, I mean my, a lot of my background. And my degree was in cross cultural leadership. And I mean, it was intended for international context. But. 168 00:25:41.650 --> 00:25:42.190 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Right. 169 00:25:42.620 --> 00:25:48.619 Dave Gladson: Operations and academics. It is almost like a different culture. There's a lot of translation, a lot of like. 170 00:25:49.060 --> 00:26:07.359 Dave Gladson: you know. I'm using a fair bit of of sales type language in this podcast I can't you. I can't. I can't talk about conversion rate, or I can't call the enrollment team the sales team. In a conversation with academics. The hackles go up, and the conversations unproductive. It's it literally is sometimes almost a translation of like 171 00:26:08.540 --> 00:26:16.948 Dave Gladson: I understand from the marketing, said what we need. But now I need to translate it into academic language that's going to land so that we can have a productive conversation. 172 00:26:17.560 --> 00:26:24.620 Dave Gladson: or I need to do a lot of work to educate and like. This is what we mean by it. And this is this is why it's okay to call it that. And like, really 173 00:26:24.740 --> 00:26:26.770 Dave Gladson: bring people along. But yeah, it 174 00:26:27.400 --> 00:26:31.045 Dave Gladson: it is. It is sometimes like a cross cultural experience. 175 00:26:31.930 --> 00:26:58.479 Sharlyn, Content Strong: I know exactly what you mean. I have been there. Okay? Well, I mean, that's a good, that's a good perspective. It's a really interesting perspective that you're able to kind of use some of your background there, and and change it up for your even your internal audiences. And how important that is, I think, about as well. You know what your what your goals are. So if we think about the next 6 to 12 months, what are your top priorities. What are the top things you really want to achieve? 176 00:27:00.450 --> 00:27:11.670 Dave Gladson: Yeah, I mean as an institution. I'll I'll answer that first.st Like as an institution. It. I think it's really about smart growth. There's a lot of talk in the in the media about, you know, higher. Ed's in trouble like. 177 00:27:11.670 --> 00:27:12.170 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Right. 178 00:27:12.170 --> 00:27:20.209 Dave Gladson: Demographic cliff. All this, and that is all true. There's also great pockets of opportunity to launch new programs. I think that's 179 00:27:20.460 --> 00:27:28.440 Dave Gladson: kind of that balance we have to strike when we're pulling in some of that that data and talking about the market landscape is, yeah, it's a tough landscape. 180 00:27:28.730 --> 00:27:39.720 Dave Gladson: and there's some great. There's some great opportunities to launch programs. We're building a lot of lot of new programs in the health sciences and really being into that as a growth areas of institution. So 181 00:27:40.370 --> 00:27:47.547 Dave Gladson: telling that story and and and putting a lot of energy there while still, you know, focusing and keeping other other pieces going 182 00:27:48.640 --> 00:27:53.080 Dave Gladson: for at on a more personal level, I think something I'm excited about is 183 00:27:53.470 --> 00:27:58.730 Dave Gladson: we've built a really strong like internal leadership team within marketing. So just really 184 00:27:58.870 --> 00:28:12.269 Dave Gladson: leaning into empowering that team to get involved in more of these conversations, like not having not just me involved in set, but bringing more of them into some of those processes like strategic enrollment planning, like some of these other 185 00:28:13.710 --> 00:28:20.400 Dave Gladson: higher level planning processes within the university, giving them those opportunities to step into those roles, and then 186 00:28:20.550 --> 00:28:26.030 Dave Gladson: that obviously creates trickle down, you know, opportunities for folks on their teams as well. So just really 187 00:28:26.420 --> 00:28:30.039 Dave Gladson: elevating that elevating that within the team, I think, is a 188 00:28:31.690 --> 00:28:38.009 Dave Gladson: something we've been doing a lot this last couple of years, and something, I think, that we can really lean into this next year as well, that I'm excited about. 189 00:28:38.420 --> 00:28:54.289 Sharlyn, Content Strong: That's great. I mean, I think we see, I think across the board there's a lot of opportunity, and there's a lot of desire to kind of upscale everybody and make sure that we're finding different ways to share our abilities with other team members, but also just to strengthen 190 00:28:54.290 --> 00:29:09.280 Sharlyn, Content Strong: the cohesion across the team, and some of that is finding different ways and different avenues to teach people new skills and teach them how to use some of the new tools and things that we have. So I see that as an opportunity for sure, not only for you, but for so many other institutions. 191 00:29:09.370 --> 00:29:12.900 Sharlyn, Content Strong: my big question is my final question. 192 00:29:13.240 --> 00:29:37.059 Sharlyn, Content Strong: and the big question I mean, you touched a little bit on the challenges. But this is my magic wand question. So if I were to give you a magic wand right now, and you could snap your fingers or you can wave it, or you could say whatever the magic bippity, boppity, boo, whatever it is, and make that challenge completely disappear. Whether it's siloed systems, whether it's unclear messaging, whether it's resource limitations, whatever it is, what would you change? And why? 193 00:29:39.850 --> 00:29:45.049 Dave Gladson: I mean, the easy answer would be resource limitations. But I think I would actually lean into the 194 00:29:45.510 --> 00:29:52.220 Dave Gladson: clarity around marketing if if we could wave a magic wand, and everyone understood 195 00:29:52.540 --> 00:29:58.685 Dave Gladson: marketing's role. What marketing strategy means where marketing can lean in to provide the most value. 196 00:29:59.720 --> 00:30:04.422 Dave Gladson: we could then use the resource a lot more efficiently. So that would. That would be my magic wand. 197 00:30:05.310 --> 00:30:12.280 Dave Gladson: Understand what marketing is is does what we're awesome at, and when to call marketing, when not to call marketing. 198 00:30:12.760 --> 00:30:25.710 Sharlyn, Content Strong: That's a good one. That's a good one. But I'm still gonna pick your brain, though, because you talked about resource limitations, and everyone talks about particularly now in this landscape resource limitations. And what that means for them is that also a big challenge? You guys are dealing with. 199 00:30:27.580 --> 00:30:33.190 Dave Gladson: It's a big challenge. I also feel like it's a big opportunity. And this is one that I think we're 200 00:30:33.900 --> 00:30:38.820 Dave Gladson: needing to constantly challenge ourselves on is, there are so many new tools, so. 201 00:30:38.820 --> 00:30:39.380 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Right. 202 00:30:39.380 --> 00:30:47.495 Dave Gladson: When somebody is feeling overworked or like, Hey, we're like, we don't have the resource to do this. Okay, is there a tool for that 203 00:30:49.010 --> 00:31:02.289 Dave Gladson: it. It's it's not innovative or or unique, but like I used a a Gpt model yesterday to do some research on the thing that I needed a quick answer on, and instead of spending an entire day manually doing this research, I 204 00:31:02.650 --> 00:31:09.579 Dave Gladson: I said it loose. I got a report back 6 min later I spend like an hour reading it and and clicking some of the links, and like 205 00:31:10.470 --> 00:31:22.359 Dave Gladson: got got a much, more, much more information, much more informed, far faster than if I had tried to do that research manually if I assigned it to our research assistant to do 206 00:31:23.340 --> 00:31:28.603 Dave Gladson: There, there's tools and ways. So what are the processes that need to shift? 207 00:31:29.920 --> 00:31:35.651 Dave Gladson: More money is is always great, more being able to hire more. Staff would be amazing. 208 00:31:36.660 --> 00:31:51.828 Dave Gladson: but before we do that is, is there a process shift that needs to happen? Is there a tool we need to bring in to make make this make the manual part of a process easier, so that we can then invest those human hours in the part of the job that is best done by a human. 209 00:31:52.620 --> 00:31:58.740 Dave Gladson: because AI AI isn't going to replace the need for people. But AI can certainly allow people to do a lot more work. 210 00:31:58.960 --> 00:32:00.400 Dave Gladson: A lot better work. 211 00:32:01.520 --> 00:32:24.999 Sharlyn, Content Strong: I agree with you completely. I say I have the same song and dance, my friend. I'm saying the same thing to everybody. It's an opportunity. Don't be terrified of it. Let's use it. Find out ways to use it properly. And there are so many people who are. It's going to take over. It's not going to take over our jobs because you still need us. We still need the strategic thinking that we can provide to implement them in the right way. So I'm totally with you on that one, Dave. 212 00:32:25.740 --> 00:32:27.780 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Is there anything else 213 00:32:27.980 --> 00:32:34.489 Sharlyn, Content Strong: that comes to mind that you're like? I really want to share this with Charlene, and with the broader post-secondary sector. 214 00:32:36.280 --> 00:32:41.616 Dave Gladson: I mean, I guess I should put in a plug. Look at our website and come come to San Diego. 215 00:32:42.150 --> 00:32:46.910 Sharlyn, Content Strong: I want to come to San Diego. I'm here in Toronto. It's cold as always. So I want to come. Yeah. 216 00:32:47.950 --> 00:33:01.849 Sharlyn, Content Strong: okay, well, thank you. Thank you so much again, Dave, for sharing your time, your experience, your perspective with us today. It's been such a thoughtful and generous conversation to our listeners. Slash washers. I hope this episode sparked some ideas, maybe 217 00:33:01.850 --> 00:33:20.040 Sharlyn, Content Strong: affirmed your own experiences helped. You see a challenge in a new light. If you're a communications and marketing leader in Higher Ed. And you want to contribute to this conversation. I would love to hear from you, because these conversations ideally are the start of a shared roadmap for the future of our field. So let's get to work. Thank you so much again, Dave. 218 00:33:20.920 --> 00:33:22.140 Dave Gladson: Thank you, appreciate it.