WEBVTT 1 00:00:19.870 --> 00:00:43.630 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Hello, and welcome to higher thinking on higher. Ed. I am Charlene Carrington, communications steward and strategist, so excited once again to continue diving into the biggest trends, common challenges, and the most effective solutions encountered by communications and marketing leaders in higher Ed. And today I am honored to talk to John Penrose, Vice President of enrollment and marketing at Kentucky, Christian Christian University. 2 00:00:43.800 --> 00:01:05.280 Sharlyn, Content Strong: John leads strategic growth initiatives across admissions and branding, and with over 20 years of experience in higher Ed, and also as the founder of velocity, 290 digital solutions. John brings both institutional insight and entrepreneurial perspective to this conversation. Once again. Big. Thank you, John, for being here with us today. How are you doing? 3 00:01:05.280 --> 00:01:08.669 Sharlyn, Content Strong: I'm doing great. Thank you for inviting me. 4 00:01:08.670 --> 00:01:09.600 John: Of course. 5 00:01:10.630 --> 00:01:36.150 Sharlyn, Content Strong: To this, too. I'm so happy you had the time to do it today. So we'll just start really easy. I've just said a little bit about what it is that you do, but I would love to just dive in a little bit to your journey and and your experience. I know you have a really unique blend of academic and missions focused and leadership experience. Can you tell us a little bit about? You know your role as Vp. For marketing communications now and generally, how it connects to the broader mission of the institution. 6 00:01:36.150 --> 00:01:43.439 John: Yeah, excellent. No, I have a deep connection to the mission of the University. Honestly, it's the mission 7 00:01:43.790 --> 00:01:59.729 John: of Kcu that brought me here. I was at Thomas Moore University before this, and really enjoyed my role there, and the president of this school came and spoke at my church, and my church is connected to this university. I live about an hour away from here. 8 00:01:59.910 --> 00:02:06.270 John: and I don't know. 2 months later I'm working here. It was. 9 00:02:06.450 --> 00:02:15.390 John: and it was strictly because of what what we do here. It's it's a unique situation of of a Christian 10 00:02:15.490 --> 00:02:18.699 John: university that offers many of the same 11 00:02:19.160 --> 00:02:43.250 John: things that a larger State school or someplace like that. But in a very personalized Christian environment. And I super love that. And and we're really focused on producing servant leaders for people in both careers and ministry, or doctors or lawyers, you know, anywhere they find work 12 00:02:43.730 --> 00:02:46.399 John: outside after they graduate here. So 13 00:02:46.530 --> 00:02:50.899 John: I love it. It's it really fits with what I do and how I do it. 14 00:02:51.470 --> 00:03:18.600 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Now I do this often, and I apologize in advance. You say something that's really interesting, and it's a question that completely I didn't think about before. But as you're talking about your connection to your own personal values and your personal mission, and of course the connection to the mission that the institution tries to bring to the world. I wonder if you can speak a little bit on how the values based mission actually drives some of the marketing efforts that you do in the University. 15 00:03:18.770 --> 00:03:31.019 John: That? That's a great question. It it completely drives the we, the marketing. We are desperately working 16 00:03:31.830 --> 00:03:35.919 John: to get away from the giant net philosophy and really 17 00:03:36.140 --> 00:03:39.930 John: focus on mission fit students, mission critical 18 00:03:40.110 --> 00:03:51.070 John: procedures and market to those groups on a number of platforms. So students that are looking for a Christ centered 19 00:03:51.460 --> 00:03:55.610 John: education need to be at the top of our list, and 20 00:03:55.760 --> 00:04:10.089 John: from years past, when you would do broader outreach and broader perspectives in in the the folks you market to. We. We don't really do that anymore. We are looking to target individuals, and our messaging 21 00:04:10.200 --> 00:04:17.779 John: has to be authentic to what we do and connects with those students. Or it's ineffective. 22 00:04:19.470 --> 00:04:25.540 Sharlyn, Content Strong: I think that's a really interesting response. Because I think, you know, coming from a communications and marketing lens myself, I think about 23 00:04:26.060 --> 00:04:37.399 Sharlyn, Content Strong: really trying to find a way to identify who those leads are. Who those people are. I wonder how you do that? Is it some? Is it they come to you first, st or how are you finding kind of finding them? 24 00:04:37.400 --> 00:04:43.899 John: Well, that's that's the great mystery of all mysteries in college admissions, you know, finding the mission fit kids that have. 25 00:04:43.900 --> 00:04:44.760 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Yeah. 26 00:04:46.170 --> 00:04:51.959 John: But we have a number of things that we do. We have about 200 Covenant churches. Obviously 27 00:04:51.970 --> 00:05:21.190 John: kids from those churches are are likely good mission fits. We work with camp teams at Christian camps. In the summertime we go to conferences, and what we do is we. We build them. We build profiles of those type of students where they come from. And then we look at our alumni and we build a profile of the alumni that are most connected to the university, and then we try to find that in this generation which isn't 28 00:05:21.200 --> 00:05:29.250 John: always easy. But I don't know when you you know, when you know, you know it's 29 00:05:29.500 --> 00:05:35.890 John: it's it's a difficult task. But I think if if we're in the right spots where they're consuming 30 00:05:36.300 --> 00:05:37.350 John: media where they're. 31 00:05:37.350 --> 00:05:37.720 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Right. 32 00:05:37.720 --> 00:05:38.430 John: I mean 33 00:05:39.970 --> 00:06:00.300 John: as Bart Taylor would say. They're watering holes. Then then we have a good chance of reaching those those students. But if we're, you know, if we're running an ad in the newspaper, we're probably not reaching those students, not. There's not a reason to run an ad in the newspaper. I don't have a reason to run an ad. 34 00:06:00.300 --> 00:06:00.670 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Right. 35 00:06:01.040 --> 00:06:01.534 John: But 36 00:06:02.540 --> 00:06:04.589 John: You know I have to be where they are. 37 00:06:04.920 --> 00:06:11.440 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Exactly so. I love that you said that because I mean, I feel that that leads perfectly into my next question. 38 00:06:11.440 --> 00:06:36.260 Sharlyn, Content Strong: When you said about, you know. Sometimes it's hard to identify them and to find out where it is that they are and connecting with them on the platforms that you're using, and I think about just in general kind of the sector shifts the shifts that we're seeing across higher Ed, but across marketing communications in general, and the difficulty in reaching people. I wonder, in general, what changes you're seeing across higher Ed, particularly for smaller or 39 00:06:36.260 --> 00:06:43.890 Sharlyn, Content Strong: faith-based institutions, for example. And how are those shifts, kind of shaping your communications and marketing strategy or priorities right now. 40 00:06:44.580 --> 00:07:12.810 John: Yeah. The well, obviously the demographic cliff for us is important and straight ahead. Then the good news is, Kentucky is a few years behind that demographic cliff. So our high, this should be our biggest high school graduation this year and next for several years, and then it'll slightly decline afterwards. So that's a shift. I I see that some of the larger institutions. 41 00:07:14.590 --> 00:07:22.739 John: have pulled their tried to pull students from our our niche into their 42 00:07:23.150 --> 00:07:30.009 John: into their recruiting processes where maybe they weren't going after those students as 43 00:07:30.630 --> 00:07:40.410 John: intensely, but but mostly I've seen it used to be in marketing higher. Ed, the 44 00:07:41.300 --> 00:07:43.270 John: the Big 8, the small. 45 00:07:43.270 --> 00:07:43.860 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Right. 46 00:07:43.860 --> 00:07:49.899 John: Right. The big ate the small and the small had to fight all they could, and I've always been at smaller schools. 47 00:07:50.070 --> 00:07:53.269 John: But now it's the fast eats the slow. 48 00:07:53.270 --> 00:07:54.010 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Right. 49 00:07:54.320 --> 00:08:16.940 John: Right, and it used to be all these, you know. You'd have all these philosophies about lead follow up and and kind of, and I started in for profit. So we're pretty aggressive. And and so we have marketing. And then we get leads. And then prospective students. We really go aggressively and quickly, and just across our entire process. 50 00:08:17.310 --> 00:08:31.630 John: There's a greater need for speed, and there's a greater need for student experience. And if you can marry those 2 things appropriately, then you will be successful. But if you don't react. 51 00:08:31.990 --> 00:08:44.290 John: you know nobody. And I have this conversation with folks all the time. When you buy something on Amazon, and you pay for it, or you fill the form out. If something doesn't pop up immediately. 52 00:08:44.610 --> 00:08:48.630 John: you lose your mind. Right? You're like long. 53 00:08:48.630 --> 00:08:59.530 John: Yeah, why? And so the same experiences. You drive somebody to your website. You convert them, and you don't respond to them immediately. More marketing on top of that. Essentially. 54 00:08:59.530 --> 00:09:00.120 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Right. 55 00:09:00.537 --> 00:09:14.739 John: They think something's wrong in the process, especially this generation and the the current, the current group of students we like we or we're dealing with now. They really are looking for curated choices. 56 00:09:14.740 --> 00:09:15.250 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Right. 57 00:09:15.250 --> 00:09:16.110 John: I'm like 58 00:09:16.210 --> 00:09:30.680 John: a gigantic portfolio. So it's important on our end for us to kind of know where we're marketing. Know what the students are looking for, and then give them a few choices that are meaningful to them. 59 00:09:31.210 --> 00:09:38.230 John: Instead of 8,000 choices where some previous generations kind of 60 00:09:38.350 --> 00:09:42.080 John: they, they wanted multiple choice. They wanted a thousand. 61 00:09:42.080 --> 00:09:42.400 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Right. 62 00:09:42.825 --> 00:09:43.250 John: From. 63 00:09:43.370 --> 00:09:57.669 John: So those are some of the major shifts both demographically and process wise that we're seeing. And then, of course, obviously, as students move around. I'll 64 00:09:58.520 --> 00:10:02.625 John: we set up a Snapchat Snapchat 65 00:10:05.010 --> 00:10:13.539 John: business profile like a year ago, and I was working on that myself because we're small, and I just felt so old. 66 00:10:13.650 --> 00:10:36.890 John: I'm doing that, Snapchat, and I'm trying to figure out how this all works. And and you know I'm just looking at that. I have 12 year old kids, so they're not. I'm I'm holding off the social media as long as I can. If I, my 16 year old niece, was here, I'd be dominating this. So that's it's like you have to. You have to adapt. 67 00:10:37.040 --> 00:10:44.850 John: And you have to find the folks where they are. So yeah. So I've learned to use Snapchat. 68 00:10:45.260 --> 00:11:06.710 Sharlyn, Content Strong: That's I mean, that's what you need to do exactly that. You need to figure out where it is that they are. I want to pick up. There are a few different things you said that I've actually written down here because I don't want to forget them. And one of the things you talk about is curating that kind of personalized experience. What does that look like for your team? What is that from before they actually become a student, or you're just talking about once they're a student, and you're trying to retain them and make. 69 00:11:06.710 --> 00:11:09.546 John: No, no, that's before they become a student. That is, 70 00:11:10.010 --> 00:11:19.749 John: that is, using the information we have in their journey, especially on our website and other places to understand. 71 00:11:21.100 --> 00:11:24.070 John: So once again, we lead. We 72 00:11:25.550 --> 00:11:39.349 John: we had, for example, Icom is a large conference on missions that we had here last year. And there was like 40,000 people. We did some Geo targeting and and captured some 73 00:11:39.540 --> 00:11:59.559 John: data from that. And we started sending ads out about our certificate programs. And and so what that looks like is using a specialized QR code or using a specialized to direct people to the choices. We think they would be most interested in, based on where they came from. 74 00:11:59.560 --> 00:12:00.570 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Right, right. 75 00:12:00.570 --> 00:12:07.839 John: And so instead of sending them to a landing page of all the online programs. 76 00:12:08.180 --> 00:12:17.830 John: right? We're sending them specifically to a landing page on a certificate in church ministry. Yes, or 77 00:12:18.100 --> 00:12:28.499 John: if it was an we did a big nursing event in Eastern Kentucky a couple months ago. Those we we actually have a curated landing page. 78 00:12:29.010 --> 00:12:33.610 John: That those particular leads will be directed towards 79 00:12:34.278 --> 00:12:41.280 John: that will give them options in undergraduate nursing, because we know they're all high school kids right? Right? 80 00:12:41.490 --> 00:12:44.470 John: So that's that takes a little more 81 00:12:46.290 --> 00:12:52.630 John: effort on both ends, the market, the marketing and the enrollment side. But honestly, in this job 82 00:12:53.120 --> 00:12:57.610 John: it's the same job. If you can't do both, you're in trouble. I mean. 83 00:12:57.610 --> 00:12:58.300 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Right. 84 00:12:58.776 --> 00:13:02.450 John: That's how I got into the whole marketing side I was at. 85 00:13:03.440 --> 00:13:20.659 John: I was at a conference for Enrollment leaders in Nashville quite a long time ago, and they asked, they asked us all they said, Do you? How many of you guys text your students to recruit them? I was the only guy that raised my hand. 86 00:13:20.660 --> 00:13:21.180 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Oh, wow! 87 00:13:21.180 --> 00:13:35.740 John: And I didn't want to say I came from the evil for profits, and they told us to text the kid. I mean, that's where I kind of learned about texting, I mean, that's not. I'm just joking about the evil part I work from for a couple of really good for-profit schools, but 88 00:13:36.210 --> 00:13:44.810 John: so I was the only guy that raised my hand, and the next year I don't remember where the conference was. It was someplace, else it was. 89 00:13:45.380 --> 00:13:48.209 John: and they did the same thing. They said how many people. 90 00:13:48.720 --> 00:13:49.970 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Everyone, raise their hand. 91 00:13:49.970 --> 00:13:50.890 John: Everybody right. 92 00:13:50.890 --> 00:13:51.860 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Oh, for sure! 93 00:13:51.860 --> 00:13:56.595 John: Then the very next question, they said, was, how many guys are using 94 00:13:57.140 --> 00:14:02.649 John: targeted digital ads to attract your students? 2 people raise their hands. 95 00:14:02.650 --> 00:14:03.749 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Oh, my! Gosh! Right. 96 00:14:03.750 --> 00:14:05.110 John: It wasn't me. 97 00:14:05.780 --> 00:14:08.059 John: I wasn't 1 of the people that raised my hands. 98 00:14:08.060 --> 00:14:08.580 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Right. 99 00:14:08.580 --> 00:14:15.149 John: And then I thought, -oh, I'm gonna be all those people from last year that I was whooping on 100 00:14:15.710 --> 00:14:18.630 John: for a couple of years right because they didn't text their students. 101 00:14:18.630 --> 00:14:19.250 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Right. 102 00:14:19.250 --> 00:14:23.379 John: And I felt like I felt that that exact second, I'm like I'm behind. 103 00:14:24.030 --> 00:14:28.650 John: and I have to do whatever I need to do to learn how to do this. 104 00:14:28.650 --> 00:14:29.370 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Right. 105 00:14:29.530 --> 00:14:41.240 John: Right, and I worked at a small school with no money, so I mean it was, if it was to be. It's up to me right? So I'm like I'm behind right now. I realized now the good thing. One. I think one of them was 106 00:14:43.350 --> 00:14:54.000 John: a very Vanderbilt, I think, was one of the schools, so we really wasn't competing with Vanderbilt, but I knew at that moment I had to learn how to do the marketing side and marry the 2 of them 107 00:14:54.120 --> 00:15:02.919 John: to be successful. So that's when I started and and started in digital marketing and and trying to learn how to be a digital marketer. 108 00:15:03.080 --> 00:15:03.610 John: And so. 109 00:15:03.610 --> 00:15:04.260 Sharlyn, Content Strong: You. 110 00:15:04.730 --> 00:15:28.060 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Yeah, I mean, I think you touched on so many things there that I think are so critical. Just this idea that technology is changing so quickly the tools that we have are changing and advancing so quickly. The ways to reach your audience to reach students are changing and advancing so quickly, and it's really easy to almost miss the boat on certain things. But but you also touched on just this idea that when you're in a smaller school, and you have a smaller team. 111 00:15:28.060 --> 00:15:41.370 Sharlyn, Content Strong: You know there are different challenges. There are different challenges that present themselves. And I wonder, you know, thinking about some of the successes that you have, and then some of the things that maybe are still kind of challenging for you. You know what's what's 112 00:15:41.370 --> 00:15:51.639 Sharlyn, Content Strong: clicking right now for you in your work. What's working really? Well, maybe something that is exceeding your expectations. And then, on the flip side, you know what's been especially frustrating or difficult to move forward. 113 00:15:55.600 --> 00:15:59.119 John: Integration of AI. I think we're ahead of the curve. 114 00:15:59.710 --> 00:16:04.490 John: I think we're ahead of the curve as far as Sing. 115 00:16:05.010 --> 00:16:11.290 John: and it's intentional planning, and it's intentional work on our part as seeing AI as 116 00:16:11.520 --> 00:16:16.760 John: a a tool in our toolbox that we we bring alongside of what we do. 117 00:16:16.760 --> 00:16:17.410 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Right. 118 00:16:17.410 --> 00:16:22.700 John: Not trying to figure out a way to use AI to do what we do, so we don't have to do it. 119 00:16:22.700 --> 00:16:23.669 Sharlyn, Content Strong: It right. 120 00:16:23.670 --> 00:16:44.180 John: Right it has to be. It's like it's like giving everybody this assistant that might get the, you know, be super fast and super smart. And then some of the integrations in our Crm and some other places where we actually have like options like you can type a response, and then it'll say, Hey, maybe you ought to send it this way. 121 00:16:44.180 --> 00:16:44.530 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Right. 122 00:16:44.530 --> 00:16:47.559 John: Knowing as enrollment professionals 123 00:16:48.030 --> 00:16:59.100 John: to say. And you know sometimes the way the AI sets it up. It's terrible right. Of course you wouldn't send that to a student. And then sometimes you're like Whoa, that's pretty good. 124 00:16:59.998 --> 00:17:02.930 John: perfect example. I was working on them. 125 00:17:04.099 --> 00:17:10.288 John: I'm working on a TV ad, right, a streaming TV ad digital ad 126 00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:15.960 John: and I was. I was struggling with the last part of the 127 00:17:16.140 --> 00:17:21.280 John: of this, the sentence and I had, like 4 or 5 ideas, and I 128 00:17:22.030 --> 00:17:29.589 John: I put them together, and I used AI to help me like I listed my ideas, and I'm like help 129 00:17:29.720 --> 00:17:33.019 John: analyze these, and give me suggestions. 130 00:17:33.020 --> 00:17:33.390 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Right. 131 00:17:33.390 --> 00:17:39.663 John: And I came up with something I thought was really good. You know it was 132 00:17:40.920 --> 00:17:42.670 John: it was. It was. 133 00:17:43.250 --> 00:17:49.050 John: It was focused on nursing. So it was like a ready to care statement. But 134 00:17:49.770 --> 00:17:53.069 John: if I just said, AI, give me the statement. 135 00:17:53.990 --> 00:18:03.539 John: and I had to put like my 5 ideas. Yeah, you have to that. It would. It would have been, it would. It's just be junk. So you have to kind of understand 136 00:18:03.600 --> 00:18:27.599 John: that technology and that emerging technology and not be afraid to use it absolutely. But you have to understand that it is just part of the tool in our toolbox, and I feel like as a team and as a school like I feel like we've been pretty progressive on the on the academic side, and we're working hard on the marketing side to use AI, but not to do it like. 137 00:18:27.680 --> 00:18:39.849 John: And you know you scroll through your social media feed. You can tell the AI. And matter of fact, it's it's going to be like it's eventually, I honestly think the full AI ads are going to be 138 00:18:40.390 --> 00:18:48.459 John: kind of a students are smart, right? They're smart. They know when that picture of the guy walking in. 139 00:18:48.790 --> 00:18:54.739 John: Backpack, and the sun's hitting their face. Just the right might not be real, you know. And so 140 00:18:54.940 --> 00:18:55.490 John: I'm 141 00:18:56.280 --> 00:19:06.320 John: I think we're really doing well in that. I think we're doing really well in our outside lead creation, our our in-person marketing shoe leather type stuff. 142 00:19:08.330 --> 00:19:11.640 John: And I feel like we've done well on the digital 143 00:19:11.950 --> 00:19:17.930 John: advertising, the paper click, the digital creating digital ads that are right 144 00:19:17.930 --> 00:19:32.099 John: people, and getting those in front of perspective students. I feel like that's going pretty well for us, right? And our indicators, like our conversion rates, and our all those that all the numbers that count look. 145 00:19:32.460 --> 00:19:44.949 John: you know, like we're doing well in there, because I could feel it all day long. But if the conversion rate's terrible, and our click through rate is terrible, and all the things that we measure every day 146 00:19:45.320 --> 00:19:53.200 John: aren't working. It doesn't matter what I feel, because that's olden times, and this is the new time, and you have to track literally everything. So. 147 00:19:53.200 --> 00:19:59.510 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's the next question I was going to ask you, but I don't want to. I don't want to ask you yet, because I want to know if there's any of you have any challenges or. 148 00:19:59.510 --> 00:20:02.607 John: Yeah, no tons of challenges we have. 149 00:20:05.370 --> 00:20:18.109 John: We're still in an overall branding voice. Authority deficit at this school. This school is excellent. It is excellent. And the thing that struck me about that 1st meeting I had with the President 150 00:20:18.340 --> 00:20:19.700 John: he talked about. 151 00:20:20.370 --> 00:20:21.359 John: He said 152 00:20:22.150 --> 00:20:31.709 John: he was bragging, not bragging. But in his speech he was talking about the top 10 nurse practitioner program in the country at Kcu. 153 00:20:32.370 --> 00:20:35.099 John: I'm in the college admissions business. 154 00:20:35.390 --> 00:20:38.829 John: I'm at a lot at a at a good sized school. 155 00:20:39.100 --> 00:20:39.770 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Right. 156 00:20:39.770 --> 00:20:42.229 John: I have a nursing program that I promote. 157 00:20:42.970 --> 00:20:45.650 John: I didn't know Kcu had a top 10 program. 158 00:20:45.650 --> 00:20:46.440 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Right. 159 00:20:46.580 --> 00:20:52.100 John: I didn't know these things, and of all the people sitting there in those pews that should have known that it would have been me. 160 00:20:52.100 --> 00:20:52.650 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Right. 161 00:20:52.650 --> 00:20:54.870 John: And it kind of was like a challenge like. 162 00:20:55.480 --> 00:21:08.219 John: I gotta help fix this. I gotta help fix this. This is so there's like a voice authority, a branding authority, and they did some just classic mistakes. It wasn't out of neglect, like, for example. 163 00:21:08.560 --> 00:21:14.589 John: when I got here, the course catalog for this university was a Pdf. Saved on our website. 164 00:21:14.590 --> 00:21:15.410 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Right. 165 00:21:15.550 --> 00:21:42.890 John: It was a good course catalog. It was all in there, but you know, and I know with Google crawls that course catalog. They just see a Pdf. They you don't get any authority from all those classes you have. So the 1st thing you know, 1st thing I said is, we got to build a new website. This has to change. We need, we need authority in these content areas. And so no, that's still a struggle. We did a lot of painting, and I've been here 2 and a half years. In the 1st 2 years I painted 166 00:21:43.000 --> 00:21:49.020 John: I rolled out a lot of paint on fresh woods, you know, it's just being sucked in. And 167 00:21:49.280 --> 00:21:56.819 John: we're starting to see in our own backyard, which is where I wanted to own first, st like applications from local high schools and stuff. 168 00:21:56.940 --> 00:22:04.460 John: which is the real test for us. Those have all increased. So I know we're being effective effective. But 169 00:22:05.220 --> 00:22:18.850 John: yeah, it's still a struggle and our our biology program. We have kids getting accepted into Med school. And we have all these great things happening in our pre-professional programs. And it's like 170 00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:32.280 John: we send press, release after press, release after press release and and part of it, because it's not like the old days. The sources you used to send that information to 171 00:22:32.940 --> 00:22:48.720 John: they reached a broad, broad audience aren't as effective. And so you have to send it to multiple places that have like more narrow reaches. And so that's a challenge. That's a challenge. And we have some tools to help with that, or we couldn't do it. 172 00:22:48.830 --> 00:22:53.410 John: But so I think that's a struggle. 173 00:22:53.610 --> 00:22:55.530 John: But we're making progress. 174 00:22:55.750 --> 00:23:19.940 Sharlyn, Content Strong: I want to get into that a little bit. I want to hear about some of the tools you're using to do all of those things. So you talked about using AI and what that means, how they're supplementing some of the work that you do. And I use that word very specifically supplementing some of the work you do and some of the other tools you said for kind of pushing your Pr machine. But you talked a lot just now about metrics and watching your conversion rates. And you know, actually being able to track directly what you're doing. 175 00:23:19.960 --> 00:23:32.119 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Enrollment numbers from high schools directly into your schools and into some of your programs. So in general, with limited time and resources, what key metrics are you? Are you watching most closely? And how 176 00:23:32.120 --> 00:23:33.460 Sharlyn, Content Strong: are you kind of about you waiting. 177 00:23:33.630 --> 00:23:37.310 John: Honestly, time and resources isn't nearly the the 178 00:23:37.890 --> 00:23:46.659 John: issue it used to be in tracking right? Most of the vendors I work with most of the folks I've worked with individual folks. They provide me dashboards and. 179 00:23:46.660 --> 00:23:47.030 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Right. 180 00:23:47.030 --> 00:23:48.889 John: Another inside metrics. 181 00:23:49.720 --> 00:24:06.039 John: But I learned the Ogsm model of planning from some friends at Procter and Gamble. When I was at Chatfield college in Cincinnati. So I worked with a lot of those people. So I kind of learned what their strategies and how important the measures were. 182 00:24:06.040 --> 00:24:06.640 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Right. 183 00:24:06.640 --> 00:24:13.470 John: So when we set up all our planning, the measures are just as important as the objective right, because you can't prove the objective of that. 184 00:24:13.800 --> 00:24:20.530 Sharlyn, Content Strong: So for us the the main goals obviously are lead creation, and then lead creation by funnel. 185 00:24:20.710 --> 00:24:24.489 John: So we track that. And then the second is applications. 186 00:24:25.610 --> 00:24:29.630 John: Which every school in the country's applications accepts. 187 00:24:30.870 --> 00:24:42.489 John: And and all the way down that funnel through register. Now on the marketing side, it's it's we use pixels and everything we do digitally. 188 00:24:42.490 --> 00:24:43.140 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Right. 189 00:24:44.338 --> 00:24:54.539 John: So we know where our traffics come from. Our analytics is set up. So it coordinates in several different dashboards. And so I'm tracking 190 00:24:55.077 --> 00:25:00.440 John: what the click through rates are on the ads. I wanna know who's clicking on it. And why. 191 00:25:00.890 --> 00:25:14.369 John: more importantly, what's the bounce rate on that ad? So if people are coming to us from a digital ad or streaming TV ad, or something like that, I want to know if they're staying. And then I want to be able to map their journey once they're on our website. 192 00:25:14.370 --> 00:25:15.200 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Right. 193 00:25:15.702 --> 00:25:20.219 John: So we have Kpis for all those including 194 00:25:20.480 --> 00:25:30.950 John: our our on page conversion, which, because, you know, at 1 point it's the ads responsibility. And then once it gets to your website, it's your website's responsibility 195 00:25:31.150 --> 00:25:37.309 John: and your team's responsibility. Then convert them. So I want to map that journey and we have 196 00:25:38.172 --> 00:25:42.110 John: pinpoints and goals for each, each different 197 00:25:43.800 --> 00:25:47.319 John: step of the way to kind of build our entire picture. 198 00:25:47.940 --> 00:25:48.839 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Of course. 199 00:25:49.100 --> 00:26:16.020 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Okay, no, that's great. I'm cognizant of your time. So I do want to ask you some of the 2 big questions. So the 1st one is, and I love these because I feel like they really kind of wrap up everything we talked about. But when you think about the next 6 to 12 months. What's something you're hoping to build to refine or to see kind of real progress on, whether it's you know, in your team specifically or at kind of a broader institutional level. 200 00:26:17.920 --> 00:26:25.140 John: I got 2. We are in the process of building a new newsroom as a separate site to use for marketing. 201 00:26:25.140 --> 00:26:25.700 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Okay. 202 00:26:25.700 --> 00:26:33.929 John: I've got I made a lot of progress on there with I'll say me one of my team members 203 00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:59.359 John: who does that, Trevor. He he really focuses. He's got the nuts and bolts of it put together, and I have some stuff I need to do from my side, and we want to generate a newsletter off that that site. And we want to do build backlinks. And we want to do all these different things for SEO. So there's a lot riding on that site. And the second project that I want to finish in the next 12 months is we have started to build a AI Chatbot. 204 00:26:59.650 --> 00:27:00.600 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Oh, great! 205 00:27:00.600 --> 00:27:06.219 John: And so I'm in the testing phase of the AI Chatbot once again. 206 00:27:06.630 --> 00:27:09.899 John: Both of those projects are very close to completion. 207 00:27:11.250 --> 00:27:17.570 John: So for me. They're they're big, and I want to get that that finished and 208 00:27:18.800 --> 00:27:21.409 John: those those would be the 2 big projects. I wanna. 209 00:27:21.530 --> 00:27:24.649 John: It's pretty institutional. But that's where I want to go. 210 00:27:24.650 --> 00:27:50.420 Sharlyn, Content Strong: No, that's great. But I you know I've had a lot of conversations with other institutions, and everybody's talking about how they map out the Chatbot, and how broad it reaches just little parts of little smaller faculties, or across the university. And what that means for them? What are you looking to do. What's your objective with that? Is it, student retention and helping them kind of figure out how, when they get to a site, how they find what it is that they need navigational issues, for example, or support issues. For example, I don't know. 211 00:27:50.420 --> 00:27:50.739 John: If you want. 212 00:27:50.740 --> 00:27:51.870 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Share all that, but. 213 00:27:52.230 --> 00:27:54.030 John: Can't get too proprietary, but. 214 00:27:54.030 --> 00:27:55.029 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 215 00:27:56.810 --> 00:28:03.050 John: They. This bot needs to assist in the helping prospects through the enrollment funnel. 216 00:28:03.050 --> 00:28:03.980 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Right? Okay. 217 00:28:03.980 --> 00:28:23.468 John: That's number one, our our number one. But we we can 2 sided website. It also needs to help people on the other side with registration and how to do their student portal. And if their email doesn't work, what do they need to do? So there's like a mechanical help, the current population side. But the 218 00:28:24.909 --> 00:28:30.449 John: there's no, it's a marketing tool for us. It's a marketing tool, 100%. 219 00:28:30.450 --> 00:28:34.519 John: And then in the front end of the website. And that's the goal for it. 220 00:28:34.800 --> 00:28:35.810 Sharlyn, Content Strong: That's excellent. 221 00:28:36.310 --> 00:28:48.980 Sharlyn, Content Strong: So my last big question and this for some reason, this is a tough question every time I ask it for everyone. But if I gave you a magic wand and you could wave it around right now and solve one persistent 222 00:28:49.100 --> 00:28:56.100 Sharlyn, Content Strong: marcoms or leadership even challenged no budget limits, no structural barriers. What would you fix first.st 223 00:28:56.510 --> 00:28:59.650 John: That's easy for me. Honestly, it was 224 00:29:01.280 --> 00:29:12.930 John: having the staff and the resources to pull in the different content created throughout this campus and 225 00:29:14.250 --> 00:29:29.409 John: pump it out to the appropriate platform you have people that are creating, you know, that are in journals and and science experiments and histories doing a dig. And all these different things that are going on. 226 00:29:29.940 --> 00:29:37.499 John: And we currently do not have a very good system of those, one being delivered to marketing 227 00:29:37.710 --> 00:29:44.740 John: and and 2 processing the news, the events. 228 00:29:44.900 --> 00:29:50.840 John: the etc. In there to to then get them out to the public, because 229 00:29:52.040 --> 00:29:56.570 John: multiple times I'll find out about things that are old news by the time. 230 00:29:56.570 --> 00:29:57.020 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Right. 231 00:29:57.020 --> 00:30:03.010 John: And it's like, you know, like somebody wins an award. Somebody does this? 232 00:30:03.717 --> 00:30:08.280 John: That's that. That structure is not in the DNA 233 00:30:08.440 --> 00:30:11.550 John: of this place. When I 1st got here on the admission side. 234 00:30:11.740 --> 00:30:16.489 John: a culture of documentation wasn't here. That was like it had to become part of our DNA. 235 00:30:16.800 --> 00:30:22.270 John: This content creation and sharing from a marketing perspective. 236 00:30:22.580 --> 00:30:26.500 John: because we can't afford to spend a billion dollars on exactly right 237 00:30:26.500 --> 00:30:32.389 John: advertisement. But we do a billion dollars worth of cool stuff that can be picked up 238 00:30:32.530 --> 00:30:38.030 John: nationally, that that's where we have to fill in that gap. And that's the one thing I would love. 239 00:30:38.130 --> 00:30:43.840 John: because that would help everything marketing enrollment that would help us from top to bottom. 240 00:30:44.110 --> 00:31:05.350 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Of course, of course, I would like to say that's not a challenge that you're the only person I've heard say that some of the universities I'm working with now. It's the same thing because they're so broad. There are silos. There are things happening, and it's difficult to build that process in necessarily to share that information in a timely manner. Right? Because we know we work in a very kind of reactive industry. 241 00:31:05.440 --> 00:31:16.320 Sharlyn, Content Strong: John, thank you so much. Thank you so much for sharing your time, your experience, your perspective with us today. Is there anything else that we didn't get to touch on that you're, you know, dying to share with us before we wrap up. 242 00:31:18.200 --> 00:31:22.939 John: No, I just I just appreciate this opportunity. I love what I do, and I love. 243 00:31:23.110 --> 00:31:25.169 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Where I do it, and it's. 244 00:31:25.870 --> 00:31:31.849 John: When when I was in high school I was for sure I was either going to be a rock star or play in the Nfl. 245 00:31:32.210 --> 00:31:35.969 John: I mean that that's those were my 2 goals, and 246 00:31:36.450 --> 00:31:40.939 John: I had no idea what a Vp. Of marketing and enrollment was. You know what I'm saying. 247 00:31:40.940 --> 00:31:41.850 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Right. I know exactly. 248 00:31:41.850 --> 00:31:50.920 John: It's like, I didn't even know this was a job or what it was, and so but it's a great job. It's a great place to be, and a great thing to do. And 249 00:31:52.560 --> 00:31:57.929 John: we just had graduation. And did, you know, to see the fruits of our labor and and what we did. 250 00:31:57.930 --> 00:31:58.850 Sharlyn, Content Strong: Deal. 251 00:31:58.850 --> 00:32:01.309 John: It's an amazing thing that we get to do. 252 00:32:02.150 --> 00:32:07.970 Sharlyn, Content Strong: That's why that's so. That's so true. But you know you're a rock star. What it is that you do. You're a rock star in a different way. John. 253 00:32:09.010 --> 00:32:15.180 John: I'm not sure about that, but it's still not quite what I'd imagine when I was 16, but still pretty cool. 254 00:32:15.180 --> 00:32:44.329 Sharlyn, Content Strong: It's still pretty cool. Well, it's been such a thoughtful and generous conversation. Thank you so much. Again, John. To our listeners or watchers. Anybody who watches this. I hope this episode sparked ideas affirmed your own experiences, or helped you see a challenge in a new light. If you're a communications or marketing leader in higher Ed. And you want to contribute to this evolving conversation. I'd love to hear from you, because we know these conversations aren't just talk. They really are a start of ideally a shared roadmap for the future of our field. 255 00:32:44.330 --> 00:32:47.090 Sharlyn, Content Strong: So let's get to work. Thanks so much again, John. 256 00:32:47.380 --> 00:32:48.100 John: Thank you.